[AKidsRight.Org] FEEDBACK(2): No to nonviolence - FIGHT, be a MAN, HURT SOMEONE? - Not!

webmaster@AKidsRight.org

Good People & People of Faith,

This message has some serious thoughts and some crazy thoughts and
probably some of your thoughts on reform methods.  Most of us are
pretty 'tame' and we would never "HURT SOMEONE", how barbarous!
Another bunch see "nonviolence" and get sick, look at America, how it
was founded -- armed conflict!  Sometimes you have to fight for what
you believe in.

1. Your FEEDBACK - nonviolence doesn't work!
2. Your FEEDBACK - being erased from my child's life -scary!

But first, before the FEEDBACK, what does AKidsRight.Org stand for? 
NonViolent Action -- which is NOT 'nonviolence' and is NOT 'hurting
someone'.  It is different!  Check http://www.AKidRight.Org/civil.htm

In brief we have held up the ideal that people willing to demonstrate:
Faith, Love, and Personal Sacrifice can be the means of effective
social change. That Parents can promote Family Law reform by
demonstrating:

1) Faith in a loving God,
2) Love for their children, former spouses, and other "brothers and
sisters", and
3) Willingness to make Personal Sacrifice, 

NonViolent Action allows you to demonstrate through "unambiguous
physical action" the depth of your Faith and belief in your "cause." 
It is a positive demonstration of love given at sometimes tremendous
personal cost. 

"Pain that is not transformed will be transmitted" -- Fr. Richard Rohr

1. Your FEEDBACK - nonviolence doesn't work!
--------------------------------------------
Original message: 
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/archive/archive2006/0008.html

--- David

> Any moron can cause abuse to themselves and what does it accomplish? 
> Any sorry ba$tard that thinks the systems even cares is already
> $ucked up in the head. what is it that you are trying to prove? Just
> how stupid you are? how does a hunger strike help your child/ren? 
> you are one sick puppy. If you want to accomplish something join in
> a group willing to take over a family court and take some aggressive
> action for immediate change, Are you too ignorant to understand this
> is a real war and passive, $ock sucking techniques are not going to
> make a difference in this fight, be man enough to pull a trigger if
> it has to be done or shut the $uck up !!!... People have been trying
> to change the system for the last 40 years playing by their rules
> and where has it got us? Exactly where they want us!! ... Shove your
> 60s peace demonstration ideas up your a$$ and wake up. You draft
> dodging ba$tards need to learn what it is like to be shot at and how
> to return fire. Non violent action is for chicken $hit a$$holes that
> are to dammed ignorant to understand the system just does not care
> and will not change until they are forced to. To much water under
> the bridge, time to blow the bridge if you expect change. You non
> violent types can kiss my a$$... I just can not find enough real men
> or women to back me up, because of you non violent ba$tards
> continuing to preach something that is not working and never
> will. Wake up!!! the system just does not care until you or we make
> it care. until it cost them something, nothing is going to change.

...I'm a graduate of the Air Force Academy and a former Air Force
Pilot. I quite agree with you that just being 'passive' will not
accomplish anything, and that quiet little parades and lobbying and
(even email like yours) -- isn't going to be enough to change the
system.  Even if you swear more!...

We do need to ACT, and it is going to take courage and it is going to
take sacrifice and it is going to take Faith, but unlike a shooting War
-- it is not going to take violence against others.  We need to
convince people that we really love our kids and they mean everything
in the world to us.  I am not about 'nonviolence', I am about
NonViolent Action, the stuff Martin Luther King did and Gandhi did in
India -- and you know what?  It did work.

Unlike yourself, I've got an obligation to ACT even if I am the only
one.  Everybody always wants to wait for someone else because they
don't have confidence in themselves.  Now maybe you want folks to join
and break some windows; or maybe go big time and blow something up!
That is really going to convince me how much you love your kids --
let's hurt some other parents, families -- and make them lose mothers,
fathers, children - after all, they deserved it!!!!!

David, I need people who are willing to join in the effort. Willing to
feel handcuffs and go to jail, because they love their kids.  Their
willing to peacefully sacrifice their freedom and their jobs to show
how strong that love is.  Take the time to read about NonViolent
Action at http://www.AKIdsRight.Org/civil.htm

... The system didn't care about you, and when it came to your kids,
you could sit in the BACK OF THE BUS!  I've got plenty of anger, maybe
even as much as you, probably more, because I'm actually doing
something. This system is so bad it turns us into animals and we
attack each other. It's a shame.

I'm going to share your message with the folks on the list -- so
please send me something back in reply -- and don't sugar coat it!

[David's reply (not his real name)]

> You may have guessed by now that I do not concern myself with making
> new friends or trying to influence enemies. Frankly I have had it
> with the brown nosing of politicians and legal types. The point I am
> trying to make is that every time someone new comes on the scene
> they think they have a brand new Idea that will garner them so much
> attention. They can not seem to understand how many have tried the
> same things time after time after time over the last four decades
> and where are we? ...  they are worn out ideas that have so far
> proven to be ineffective and useless so why keep doing it?

> ... As soon as they are elected they forget how they got there and
> who put them there. My children are not going to get any younger
> while people continue to repeat the same mistakes that have been
> repeated for the last 40 years by well meaning individuals that
> clearly do not understand what they Are doing is a waste of time,
> energy and resources. How do I convince you and others that what you
> think will work eventually has not worked and this is eventually 40
> years later. It has not work , it is not going to work and it never
> has worked for our issues. Something new has to be tried...

> ... I wonder just how much you have been exposed to, to think that
> your efforts are going to produce satisfactory results in your
> children's life times... This corruption of the family court system
> has far reaching implications for the future of this country, not
> just your kids or my kids but great grand kids of our kids, this
> country could be destroyed over these issues.... You want to go on a
> hunger strike more power to you, make more food available for
> someone else...  It does not make sense to damage your own body for
> no effect when if you remain strong you could actually help fight
> the fight that may be coming.

> ... If you are supposed to be so intelligent and well educated as
> you claim then start showing some of it, analyze that. Open your
> narrow minded eyes and see the bigger picture.

--- Bob Allen <bobx23456@yahoo.com>

> Non violence never works with these evil misandrist hate mongers.
> Only violence can fight their kind of violence.  This evil dark lord
> in the black robe should not be allowed to walk the streets with
> decent human beings.

> Don't just fall down and let them destroy you.  Be a MAN and go down
> fighting for your rights and for the rights of MEN!

> Catch more of The World according to Bob at:
> http://bobstruth.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the message.  I quite agree with you, that nonviolence ---
i.e. just talking, writing, and doing safe things (sort of like your
blog -- just kidding?).  Is not going to change the system and how
people see parents/children.

The talk is good (even your blog), but there has to be action.  That
is why I use NonViolent Action, taking physical action that
demonstrates voluntary self sacrifice for what you believe in.

I think the history we have at the site,
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil.htm -- show that it does work and can
overcome great prejudices -- which is what we have to here.

Bob, I'm a former Air Force pilot, please don't tell me what being a
man is, or to go down fighting. Unless of course you plan on
practicing what you preach?

Judges are not some evil dark lord....... they are just people with
jobs like you and I.  Sometimes we do our jobs well, sometimes not so
well.  It just happens that "we" allowed laws to be passed that gave
these folks almost complete control over our family lives.  That needs
to be changed.

Sorry if my tone is a bit harsh.  I did check your blog out, and it
just 'screeches'.  We need to turn all that pent up frustration &
injustice into useful action.

--- "David A. Roberts" <Kutusov@msn.com>

> ...it's YOU that I'm concerned about.  I've seen far to many fathers
> in their lonely struggles, let the abuse heaped on them by
> ethically, morally and mentally challenged degenerates, turn inward
> on themselves in self-destructive ways that accomplish nothing.  We
> lose 5,000 to 10,000 fathers a year to the kind of self-destructive
> thinking that leads to suicide, and those are the very fathers that
> we need to keep ALIVE, to have any chance to eventually change our
> viciously corrupted culture....

I agree with you about the pointlessness of suicide.  It is a selfish
act. Something done out of desperation and certainly with no Faith.
My motivations are quite different here and I certainly hope for a
different result.  I want them to take full responsibility for me
after violating every fundamental right I have and just throwing me in
jail...

> The root cause of this problem is inside the Beltway, not in any
> abuse spewed by mental degenerates like Klim [The Judge in this case
> - Ed.], ...  Nothing that you can do, or not do, will have any
> effect on Klim, because his "legal training" has effectively
> provided him with rationalizations that have allowed him to build
> brick walls around what little may be left of his pea-brain sized
> conscience.  In Klim's shriveled mind, his job is simple, to force
> fathers to "shut up and send money", by fair means or foul, in order
> to keep the gravy-train of misguided federal subsidies and
> incentives flowing. ...

Well, I would not be so strong worded.  I have to assume the Judge is
trying to be a good person and trying to do what he thinks is 'right'.
I can pretty easily 'apologize' for him.  The case load is very high,
god knows there isn't time to really examine each case, my first goal
is taking care of the child, court orders do have to be obeyed or
there is anarchy.  Just because this guy is spending a lot of money on
travel, I can't excuse him, or that would open the door to everyone
else.  Things aren't perfect, I have to nail this guy, to keep
integrity in the system overall.....

Now, this is flawed seriously. Obviously, justice doesn't occur in
general -- it occurs for each individual person.  But I really think
that's how a lot of 'them' feel....

> If Klim is really determined to be an ignorant barbarian, my advice is that
> rather than a hunger-strike, which will only isolate you from the rest of
> the prison population, be a "model prisoner" and follow every rule that they
> have, but with discretion, spend all the time you can helping educate other
> prisoners-of-conscience to learn how to deal with "the system" more
> effectively....  

I've had a lot of jail experience.  In my other actions I am the model
prisoner since my goal is just to show self sacrifice by volunteering
my freedom, I don't have any issues with the police, judges, etc.. in
the criminal system.

This is entirely different.  I'm being pulled off the street and into
jail.  I need to make a strong response.  It is an issues of Faith,
http://www.AKidsRight.ORg/civil.htm -- that voluntary self-sacrifice
is always meaningful.

---  "Rob Wagner" <xrysodrakos@msn.com>

> In the spirit of fellowship and brotherhood:

> I do not think that your contemplated "nonviolent action" will be
> worth the price. Historical examples of non-violent actions that
> were actually successful differed in a number of respects from what
> you are contemplating. For one thing, they were either more
> widespread or there was more sympathy for them. When Henry David
> Thoreau refused to pay his taxes because some of the money was going
> to the war against Mexico, which had the effect of seizing land AND
> extending slave plantations into the conquered territory, although
> he ended up in jail, it was in the context of a town where most of
> the population knew him personally, and slavery was wildly
> unpopular.... 

> Mohandes Gandhi was working with hundreds of thousands of
> followers. British rule was unpopular, and WW2 kept the empire
> busy. In other times he would almost certainly have been
> assassinated by British covert ops. As it was, he was assassinated
> by a Hindu fanatic, who probably had handlers motivating him, and
> has been essentially disowned by the modern Indian political elites.

I have read some detailed history on Gandhi, and of course, at the
beginning, there were not hundreds of thousands, but just a few. I'm
care to say "NonViolent Action" -- which is really Faith based as
practiced by King and Gandhi (most recently).  Thoreau was more civil
disobedience.  He was happy to be a name-caller.  We have history at
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil_back.htm -- everything starts with
one.

> The "Civil Rights Movement" and the "Women's Movement" were quietly
> subsidized by deep-pocketed think-tanks who were after demographic
> and economic changes considered favorable to the investment
> banks. They were never "underdog" movements at all; they only
> pretended to be, to appear to be "grass-roots". There was nothing
> grass-roots about them.... 

No, I really think you are wrong here.  Not when they started.  Again,
I read a pretty critical Biography of King and what happened in the
50's -- in a Faith filled manner those people sacrificed and suffered
for what they believed in.  I think that is pretty sound historical
fact.  I do agree that by the 60's the movement had grown and
splintered and then other factors also came into play.  Again, the
link above has a bibliography.

> You can not help but to effect changes in the world. As long as you
> live and breath, you change the status quo. The idea, then, is to
> continue living and breathing, and to make those changes that will
> have the greatest impact.

> This is a war. You win a war by surviving the longest. Attack them
> in ways that they do not expect, with consequences they are
> incapable of anticipating. The universe is chaotic. Small
> differences in initial conditions result in enormous differences in
> downstream effects. Be the butterfly the flapping of whose wings
> causes the hurricane.

No, this is not a War.  I'm a pretty well trained military officer and
this has nothing to do with War -- the delivery of physical violence
in an attack upon an opponent.

What we are trying to change is Injustice caused by Uncaring people
and ourselves.  Where were 'we' when all these silly laws were being
passed? The vast majority of us didn't care about reform till the
'hens came home to roost!'  Then it became our issue.

You are right about the power of a butterflies wings.  That is the
power of NonViolent Action to change people's hearts. We need the
nation to see us as loving parents, by ACTING AS LOVING PARENTS -- not
commandos!  Show by sacrifice the love you have for your kids.

> First you will need to deal with the situation at
> hand. Unfortunately that is not an easy thing, and I suggest
> rounding up some helpers. I am willing to help in that endeavor,
> however, I am not a lawyer, and my own financial resources are
> limited. I am a better resource for creating news and propaganda....

Okay, thanks for the words of support.  I will be having some people
locally to at least know where I am.

2. Your Stories - being erased from my child's life.
---------------------------------------------------

--- Diane Booth <Childrescue2006@aol.com>

> There is so much corruption going on it makes your head spin!  Where
> do we begin to correct this?  The whole situation is so complex.

I think you know how I feel about that.  I'm sure they said the same
thing about segregation and how entrenched it was and such a mess. We
need to make the public see us as caring, loving parents -- the same
way the public needed to see blacks are real human beings...

That is why I like NonViolent Action, I don't know if you have ever
taken the time to actually read the stuff at our site, but I think you
will find it useful.  http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil.htm

We make public demonstration of loving sacrifice as parents.  No
anger, no yelling, just 'we love our kids'.  That is what I am trying
outside Clinton's offices, and that is what I will be saying when I
noncooperate with Jail.  No big statements against the Judge, etc.....

The only problem for us know, versus the 50's is Faith.  Those folks
had a strong Faith back then -- we are pretty different now.  How many
people are willing to voluntarily put themselves into more misery and
not even have the satisfaction of calling someone else a jerk!?

> Even though I have served my time,....I STILL have no contact with
> my son!  My situation is different from most parents.  I am not in a
> cold war with my son's father.  In fact, I am unable to locate his
> father.  I suspect he is either in jail or God forbid, dead.  I
> tried to locate him, but he doesn't have a phone, is not at his last
> known address....

> I have a recent photo of my son, so I know he is alive. But why
> won't they let him contact me or anyone in my family?  What do they
> want with him in California?  I have no family or ties in
> California.  My son has no one to visit him.  I have been back there
> twice to try to reunify with him, but twice they put me in jail -
> simply for BEING THERE!  What to do !

I'm so sorry about your son.  I had thought you had some contact with
him?  They really tried to erase you from his life.  All because you
wouldn't give him drugs -- just amazing.

How old was he when you last saw him?  I always had the impression he
was getting into his teen years?  I could see if he was only 8 or 9,
they might actually succeed in making you just a 'memory'.

Diane, that is tragedy.  I can't think of anything worse.  I know you
have done more than 99% of the people out there, but letter and email
and lobbying doesn't do justice to the great wrong that has been done
to you and your son.  Great Action is required motivated by Love,
Faith, & Sacrifice.  Maybe the stuff on NonViolent Action will give
you some ideas... I can't believe the system is just trying to 'erase'
you.

--- Anthony Gallo <Nychero11105@aol.com>

> Your story touches me a great deal. Life can be so funny. The Judge
> in my case is making his summation on my trial, March 31. I was told
> I do not have to attend ? That I do not have to go to court that day
> ?  This anger's me a great deal, because I have been fighting in
> Family Court for over five year's now and I deserve the respect of a
> parent to be present during this summation, not just brushed off (
> My Trial Was A Joke ). I also have been there ( child support issues
> ) many times only to be told that my employer must come to court and
> testify ( I will lose my job ). My total income calculated by the
> Internal Revenue Service was not good enough. I was told that
> possibly I stayed home on purpose to lower my income. Does anyone
> think I would still have a job if I stayed home to lower my income? 
> I am a self employed alarm installer, contracted by the same company
> for over ten year's

Yes, I know what you mean about being 'self employed' -- then they
just assume you are cheating, don't have to prove it, and set your
income level at whatever they like.

> now. Can the court's realize that 911 had a impact on everything and
> everybody, thats why my income dropped.  I feel for you because my
> daughter still live's close but she was taken out of New York. ( I
> was under the impression that no one could move out of state during
> court proceeding's) but I continue to see her under supervised
> visitation, once a week for one hour if I am lucky, because she wont
> even talk to me ( Parent Alienation ). I pay for this along with
> Child Support and I have nothing. The court's did everything to keep
> her from me for year's, even with an order for supervised visitation
> I never had the opportunity to see her. I feel for you because I
> don't know how I would handle her moving as far as your son moved.

Wow, I don't know how you do it Anthony.  That must just tear your
heart out everyday, especially when she won't even talk to.  What a
tragedy.  That is the one think I am ever so thankful for with
Domenic, my former spouse was also trying to alienate him, but he & I
were very always very close.  Now he is 13, and it is so great to get
a hug and hear 'Dad, I love you" I certainly hope & pray that day will
come for you.  Keep the door open to your daughter and keep the Faith!

My son has a pretty determined personality and isn't easy to sway.
Some kids are a little different and that makes it tough.

> I give you so much credit every time you visited your son. I feel
> for you because no one really cares, unless you have been there. John
> I feel for you because for the last month I have been telling
> everyone in my life that If on March 31, 2006 I am not treated like
> a parent and given the opportunity to read or hear this summation on
> that day, I will not leave. I will wait there all day until I am to
> receive this so-called summation. They will have to either carry me
> and drop me outside the door's of the court house, or carry me to
> jail.  No one understands my reasoning. They all tell me, what good
> will it do ? I don't really know what good it would do ( Court
> Expenses, I do not have ) But it's the principle of the matter. I
> feel for you because there are so many of us out there that have
> lost everything for this. The court's say I acted irrational many
> time's. I made flyer's saying how much I missed my daughter, I made
> bumper sticker's, I printed poem's to my daughter in local
> newspaper's, I have fought with every person in the court's that
> were supposed to be there for the "Best Interest's Of My Child " is
> that so irrational ? John from the bottom of my heart I hope
> everything work's out for you. I also believe in a higher power, and
> a judgment day. I wish you all the best, and I will be thinking of
> you.  Your Friend Anthony Gallo ( N.Y.Post Liberty Medal Winner
> "Courage" 2003 )

I can agree with your frustration.  At times you just want to explode,
in many ways I can understand what being 'raped' is.  Before you take
action, I really encourage you to go through the stuff at our site on
NonViolent Action: http://www.AKidsRight.Org/civil.htm
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/events.htm

With a little planning, you can do a lot; especially if you are not
afraid of hand-cuffs.  I would really like some folks to help me focus
on Sen. Clinton and getting her to meet with parents.  Maybe we can do
something together.

-- 
                                     Webmaster
__________________________________________________________________
webmaster@AKidsRight.Org             "A Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
Toll Free (877) 635-1968(x-211)      http://www.AKidsRight.Org/

=======================================
Newsletter mailing list
Newsletter@kids-right.org  subscribe/unsubscribe info below:
http://kids-right.org/mailman/listinfo/newsletter