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Your FEEDBACK - National Parents Leadership Council / The MDM & Your letters
From: Webmaster (webmaster@AKidsRight.Org)
This is a message from a mailing list, members@kids-right.org Unsubscribe instructions at bottom of message. ====================================================================== Good People & People of Faith: This message contains: 1. Your FEEDBACK - National Parents Leadership Council 2. FEEDBACK - MDM (MillionDadsMarch.Org) 3. Your FEEDBACK - On Reform 4. Our Mailbag - as depressing as ever! Why we sacrifice for change. This is a large message, but there was a lot of commentary to the idea of a National Parent's Leadership Council. Your messages are printed below (and some of our replies). When we get a follow up message from you, we try to give you the last word! We share the FEEDBACK so that we can all gain from seeing what other people are thinking and why. What are the common objections and obstacles we all face? We also share some sad message from people who have lost their kids to the system. We try to always print E-mail addresses. We are sure they would welcome your personal messages! 1. Your FEEDBACK ---------------- Quite a large amount on the need/goals for a National Parents Leadership Council. To see the original message check this link: http://www.kids-right.org/archive/archive2003/0018.html Council page at http://www.NationalPLC.org/ --- Daniel Lee <president@childsbestinterest.org> http://wwww.childsbestinterest.org/ > I am in agreement with most of the below. We just opened a new > chapter here in Tennessee, and had a letter published by the > American Bar Association: > http://www.abanet.org/journal/ereport/m23letter.html --- Joanne Rudman <aces4kids_jo@yahoo.com> "A Great Idea" > ... this is a great idea. You have my full support for any united, > mother/father efforts to bring solidarity to the cause of family > court reform when it comes to equal access to the children of > "severed" relationships. It is only when parents put aside their > own issues and consider the future that their children face if these > issues are not resolved that we can move forward in a productive > manner. > There are so many groups all around the country that could send a > powerful message to the government and courts if only they would all > find a common force to unite. You are very positive and never > attack women or the opposition. This is what we all need; this is > the way to succeed and keep our kids in the foreground. Some > women's and some men's groups get so radical or self-serving that > they lose sight of the real issues. --- mightylinda@juno.com (Contact her in California) > I would like to see a National Parents Council started because I > agree that the DCFS system is in dire need of reform. The bad thing > about the system is that the injustices they bring upon the families > and children are perfectly acceptable to them. However I live in > California and cannot make the distance to Washington- I do not fly. > If there are any Californians out there wishing to get a parents > council going, please email me at mightylm@yahoo.com Thanks for the message. I agree with you about "social services", they are able to act without any regard for family rights. The laws certainly need to change. Will pass your message on to the others in the group. --- Ken Wiebe <kwiebe@fathers.bc.ca> "Beyond Hope in Canada?" > I like your concepts and lists. Unfortunately, her in Canada, the > government does not and they have brought in new federal legislation > that entrenches the status quo. Yes, I have seen some of that. It appears parents don't have "rights" at all -- you Canadians are always so progressive! If you have the time and have some direct quotes/link, please send them in and we can share them with the list members. Ken's Follow-up message [Ed.] > Sorry, I'm a bit busy with a new federal government initiative where > they have placed a large number of Canadian and US and international > organizations and individuals on a hit list. They are trying to get > all anti-feminist organizations brought under the hatecrime laws so > that feminist groups can "own the internet". > Someone you know might be on their list, and it is growing into an > international incident. See hit list webpages at: > http://www.swc-cfc.gc.ca/pubs/0662882857/200303_0662882857_20_e.html > http://www.swc-cfc.gc.ca/funding/prfcfp-990902_e.html > This is a Canadian Government website attacking it's own citizens > and trying to take away their free speech. They also attack people > in other countries. --- Don Shetterly <don@breakingthesilence.net> "Don't protect child abusers!" > * Before a court can interfere with your relationship with your kids > * through divorce, separation, social service (child abuse). Society > * has the burden of proof that you are an unfit parent and a > * demonstrated threat to the safety of your kids. You have the > * protection of a unanimous verdict from a jury of your peers. > I can understand your need for what you want to accomplish but when > it comes to issues of child abuse, I have to strongly object and > take issue with you. To many parents (whether it is the father or > mother) they make it appear that they have done nothing wrong while > they are abusing the hell out of the child. I could give many > examples of this. A child has to be respected with no strings > attached and most children can't stand up for themselves because > society wants to "give credibility not to the kid but to the > parent". Oh, so and so could never do that to a child, is often > said. That is one of the most basic things that is wrong with our > society. If it is just an allegation to try and stop someone from > having custody, than I would start to agree with you. But if there > is any chance that child is being abused, I will fight your > organization all the way on behalf of the children who can not speak > for themselves. Proof is not always easy to come by in child abuse > situations and society uses that to further the abuse of a child. > Often it is a child's word against the parent's and the child is not > the winner. > Again, if perspective is kept through out this issue, than I am > supportive of you on it. If however the child is in a situation > where abuse is happening, than I strongly support the safety and > protection of the child until a reasonable time can determine that > the allegation is true or not true. There is not enough protection > in our society today for children who are being abused at the will > of people who turn the other way. Thanks for the message and the perspective. I guess the whole issue turns on proof? We think we "know" something is happening, but we also feel we don't have enough proof to convince a Jury? Do we act? I've gotten to meet a lot of people personally affected by allegations. Let me just get your response to one specific scenario. ================ You and your spouse have separated and you have equal physical custody of a 2 year old daughter. For some reason she mentions in day care that "daddy touched my bottom funny" -- they have her talk to a professional psychologist who feels the incident is "real" and to protect the child they report you and notify the other parent and Social Services. She is examined by a Physician and the evidence is mixed. There is some inflammation, but it could be the tail end of a minor infection (Or abuse). The child is "temporarily" given to your former spouse full time and you have "supervised visits" -- the Judge considers cutting you off the "safe" choice. A social worker does a home visit and "feels" you have some "issues". They want you to admit to inappropriate touching and get some counseling. They tell you that if you don't cooperate, they will tell the Court that and you may never see your child? ================ I want to tell you the above is not "contrived", but a very real example. It's easy to see the professionals as monsters, but they are just people trying to do the best they can. Would you be happy with this? Would you accept it and say, well, the system didn't work for me and my daughter, but in a majority of the cases it would be correct to take the child. I know a physician who got caught up in this very type of scenario as the alleged abuser. I look forward to your response and perspective. [no follow-up received yet. What do you think? -Ed ] --- "Leonard Henderson" <leonard@oregonfamilyrights.com> > Looks like we are pretty much on the same page. I would love to > help promote and be involved in your Parent's Leadership Council > You are quite welcome to join American Family Rights Association > http://FamilyRightsAssociation.com --- Rich Fericy <rfericy@aaahawk.com> > ... just want to let you know we appreciate what you are doing. As a > grandfather, I do have the same issues, but I don't have "standing." > BUT, we have DYFS on the defensive in NJ. > Rich Fericy, Editor > Franklin First News --- "Ikwen Peter" <banbeshie@hotmail.com> > Please I want to find out if people from Nigeria are allowed to > participate in the meeting. thanks Thanks for the message. Yes, you are welcome to be there and meet the other folks. The focus is on correcting US Laws, but I would think the group would welcome contact from those in other nations, their experiences, problems, and solutions. --- "Del Parker" <irishcoins2000@hotmail.com> > john u could do the same by just setting up a website for parents > who are without their child thru actions of the state Not quite sure what you mean? We do have some of that right now on our Hall of Shame, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/shame.htm ? Hopefully, the goal of a NPLC is to bring united focus on the issue. I think everyone understands that certain basic rights of "family" are not left to each state to decide. --- Mike Wimbish <goblingrey@yahoo.com> "Divorce too easy" > I agree with most of your ideas below and added comments to a few. I > think the ease of divorce is a detriment to family life and should > be discouraged. Unfortunately, laws and lawyers and judges have > nothing to dissuade them from granting any divorce for almost any > reason. If fact, they make a living from the spoils and > disputes. > For this reason, I believe J&DR Court should be referred to as > Anti-Family Court. Court officials should have to come to divorce > court kicking and screaming. It would help if judges had only power > to sign off on divorce and not to decide disposition of marital > items, support or alimony, or custody "awards". Two people already > at odds should not be given bigger clubs or better ammunition to > bash the other which is exactly the purpose of today's misnomered > "Family" court. 2. FEEDBACK - MDM (MillionDadsMarch.Org) ---------------------------------------- The following is in response to an earlier message which posted some examples of anti-mom and anti-dad propaganda. Original message at: http://www.kids-right.org/archive/archive2003/0015.html --- Thomas Lessman, Chairman of the Million Dads March, www.MillionDadsMarch.org --- milliondadsmarch@yahoo.com > A recent newsletter from AKidsRight featured two opposing letters to > point out that both mother and father NCPs are treated. One letter > described the Million Dads March as a "fathers' rights" > organization. It also warned people to avoid MDM because such > "Fathers' Rights organizations are corrupt and anti-woman." And, > "Most 'Fathers' Rights' supporters are pedophiles and incest > advocates". The writer's name was censored but their organization > VOCAL wasn't. > Never trust someone who abuses the weapons they protest. > I agree with [the Editor] about the irresponsible, abusive, and > malicious intent of the writer. The Family Crisis is bad enough > without having to fight such garbage. I don't hold VOCAL-NY > accountable but I would like to know for sure they don't support the > writer's views..... > Both misandry and misogyny (hatred of men or women) are as evil as > racism. Teaching our children to hate men hurts our sons, fathers, > husbands, and grandfathers. It hurts our daughters, mothers, wives, > and grandmothers who depend on the men in their lives. Hatred is a > vicious cycle that stops only when we take a stand against it! > As for the writers statements of MDM: > It's a series of events designed to encourage cooperation in a > huge but scattered movement. Children, fathers and second wives. > Non-custodial mothers, grandparents, and step families. Foster > care survivors, victims of DHHS and social services, and many other > groups. We are ALL victims of the ever-growing family crisis. If > we cannot work together then we cannot hope to overcome the crisis. > It really is that simple! > I have no quarrel with Fathers' Rights groups. They stand up for > the rights and integrity of fathers and that makes them targets of > some rather vicious feminists. I've met some big egos involved but > I have yet to see proof of widespread corruption the writer spoke > of. Fathers Rights' groups are not anti-woman. Some individuals > have expressed anti-feminist views, but anti-feminist and anti-woman > are NOT the same things. Most groups I know of support equal > parenting, children's rights, and responsible fatherhood. Those > goals are not anti-woman or corrupt in any sense. > Equal Parenting? Both joint and shared custody still create a > PRIMARY and a SECONDARY parent. Whether the custodial parent is mom > or dad the inequality is still very destructive and encourages > conflict. It's been made as complicated and expensive as possible > so that attorneys and social workers make more profit. Equal > parenting rights and responsibilities are the only solutions. Both > parents are equal parents and have equal responsibilities. It is > time for the courts to recognize that and end the parental apartheid > system they've installed. > The MDM isn't an organization either, it's a series of events > coordinated by an alliance of independent groups and people. The > idea is cooperation towards mutual goals, not consolidating. > Therefore "Participating Orgs" are all independent of each other. > The idea is to prove what we can accomplish when we all work > together. > One reason we March is to celebrate BEING fathers. On Saturday June > 7th in State capitols and Sunday June 14th in Washington DC we will > hold the "MDM Dads Fairs". We have activities lined up for fathers > to do with their children, including games, crafts, and also an > outdoor concert. > The "Million Dads March in Protest" is about the issues that we > face; each group is planning its own participation. Some groups > will hand out brochures and pamphlets, others will have people with > signs. Any group that supports fathers, children, grandparents, > foster care survivors, etc. are encouraged to contact > Chairman@MillionDadsMarch.org ASAP and begin planning their > participation! > Most updates about the MDM can be received on the > www.MillionDadsMarch.org website. I do what I can to keep it > updated, and the last few days it's been looking better! It's not > an easy job coordinating this, but we're doing what we can! 3. Your FEEDBACK - efforts for reform ------------------------------------- --- Ron <Citroencar@aol.com> > This fowarded e-mail is a classic example of why I feel you are wasting your > time trying to get an audience with Clinton. [Attachment was an example of Senator Clinton refusing to meet with a group of citizens involved in military support - Ed.] Good to hear from you again! I think I might have said this before, but I am counting on Ms. Clinton being a good politician. She no doubt wants to be President some day. If concerned parents as a group can't demonstrate the political will to get a meeting with her -- then what does it say about our movement? We need the equivalent of a Civil Right's Act for Families -- and we are going to need public opinion on our side to get it. I think we will get that be being FOR our children and DEMONSTRATING love and sacrifice (the finest attributes of a parent). I think we go no where by complaining about Judges, Lawyer, ex spouses, the divorce industry, etc.... -- Ron's Follow Up [Ed.] > Good to hear back from you. I agree about the acts of a parent and > how sacrifice is such an ingrained part of that role. I still feel > when your confronted with a bad judge, politician, or public > servant, time is better spent trying to get them out of office than > trying to "convert" them to the proper path. The problem is those of > us who could run for an office, and possibly start the change, are > so financially strapped by the family court system, we can't risk > losing what little they left us with. --- Rev. Ruth <kdz4us@juno.com> "Child Support Justice?" > I just wanted to let you know that, in Missouri, it was discovered > that Social Services had not been using the Parent Locater Service > in obtaining child support. It was declared unconstitutional that a > parent was taken to court and sued 3, 4, 5 times for the same debt. > Those who were in the class action lawsuit, do not owe ANY support > as of now, because the state did not try to collect the support > until many years AFTER these children were placed into foster care, > in an attempt to create a felony non-support allegation against the > parents. Yes, we just have an amazing system out there. It has developed with "good intentions", but without first recognizing that "family" needs to be protected. While "support" is not one of our primary issues, I am amazed that the following scenario is quite okay. Two people can have "sex", one can become pregnant and keep it a secret from the other for many years, an entire childhood (or can just abort if desired). The child can be 15, the parent can go into Court and is more than justified in collecting back support for all those years. The other parent is just expected to pay up and often times the children of the second family suffer. What about being involved with your child? --- "joel_ brockman" <joel_brockman@hotmail.com> "Keep trying" > I too am a victim of this baffling sytem to which we find ourselves. > My belief after 10 years of research is that the so-called "family > court" as in many cases with federal/state systems is the exact > opposite the anti-family court. > I will be joining and contributing soon. And hoping to bring the > full force of my presence. More to follow. > Felt compelled to congratulate you on your fine conviction. God > Bless you for making the sacrifice. Your children will thank you > one day. --- Rhonda <MMFutureHope@aol.com> "Rights of extended Family?" > Hi, my name is Rhonda. I won't be able to attend the meeting in DC; > although I do wish I could afford to. I agree with all of your > suggestions on reform of the Family Law. I am a single mother rof 2 > children; ages 14 and 12. I have no problem with the father or the > "extended family". > However, I have a court ordered visitation with my 7 year old > niece. (My sister is a drug addict and I raised this child when her > "father" denied even being her father) > I think all children should also be able to be with the maternal > and > paternal sides of the family....without force or coercion by > one parent to stop this. > *This is what I'm going through. > I want to be a part of your program. I live near Raleigh, NC. > Please keep me informed. R. Page Thanks for the message. I see you are on the mailing list so you should get any updates. I was not quite clear on your situation regarding your niece? You say you have court ordered visits -- is that against the wishes of the parents? I'd like to hear more from you on this and how you feel. Right now, the Family Rights act doesn't really included extended Family. If you don't want your Mother, Father, Sister or Brother to see your children -- that is your prerogative, it is not an issue for the Courts. If you are declared unfit to parent, does your extended family than have a "right" to see the kids. Or does it fall into discretion, which is where everything falls now. Please give me some details and examples of what your think? [No follow-up received yet - Ed. What do you think?] 4. Our Mailbag - as depressing as ever! --------------------------------------- We share some sad message from people who have lost their kids to the system. We try to always print E-mail addresses, we are sure they would welcome your personal messages! --- Lori Grider <PurpleLoriKidz@aol.com> "Goodbye to my kids!" > Please tell me about what you are doing. You see our children were > taken by the state of Florida. We are a very poor family. I can't > find a job because of my health. I don't get disability because I'm > too young and they say I can work. But I can't perform the job of > cashiering due to health problems. My husband will work. and has > worked. > The main goal is housing and money. How can you get a job when there > are none and you have to do what the state wants to put the kids > back into the home and you have to miss a day for counseling so you > not reliable for working, along with court dates. > The state has not helped us to get our kids back and now they want > us to sigh over our rights. will explain more if you need. We are > not a smart set of parents we are proud and we all love each other > so much. Thank you for listening to me and forgive my spelling. I want to apologize for completely losing track of your message! I certainly hope things have improved for you and we are working hard to change the laws so that your right to raise your own children are better protected. [ Follow up from Lori received a few days ago - Ed.] > December 23 rd was the last good-bye. I miss my kids. How because > you are poor can the state take your kids? Isn't that what aid to > families is for. The state did not help us even look or give us > contact numbers for low cost housing. So you see I have lost my > kids. Thank you for listening. > Yours Truly, Lori Grider --- <donnawhite3435@aol.com> "Support in Tennessee" > Comments:: My concern is about the child support guidelines in > Tennessee will they ever consider second families when setting child > support orders.My husband has two children he pays court ordered > child support to.We have four children at home he is trying to > support.I not able to work and help him because of three back > surgery.And the more overtime he works the more child support is > ordered on his other two children. > I don't think it's fair they take his overtime when he;s working that > to support our kids at home.Will that law ever be changed in > Tennessee?And will second families ever be equal. To court ordered > kids support?I was told to get in touch with Daniel Lee because > he can help with my concerns.Do you have a email for him? Thanks Yes, there is a little court action in that area since the kids in the second family are second-class citizens. VERY sorry to hear about your situation and it does need to change. Daniel Lee is very active in Tennessee. His email address is below: president@childsbestinterest.org --- Jbmynor3@aol.com > I have visitations rights since 1995. I spend only 3 hours of > Fridays and five hours on Sundays every week. Can I change my order > of visitations for my kids ? Can my kids spend a weekend with me? I > been divorce for 7 years and is very hard for my ex wife to give me > more time for my kids, she gives me trouble even for asking for one > more hour. I love my kids and they love me too. > She is re married for 2 years and she's going to have a baby with the > new husband, my older son is not going to pass his seventh grade. he > is 13 years old and he is going through a lot. His mother won't let > me take him for counseling and she refuse me to go to his activities > for school just because she paid all the private school. Is there a > law that can't stop me from going to his school? please send me an > advice --- Scott Lasky <Scott117@aol.com> "Continuing to Try" > We haven't communicated before, but I currently live in Manhattan > and am going through a serious "battle" in Family Court with my ex > which has been going on for so many years I can't even remember. > Anyway, I used to live in Virginia when it all started (she left me > and took the kids and came back here). > I read your e-mail about the Father's day event you want to > organize. When I lived in Virginia I was fairly involved in several > "Father's Groups". If you don't know him, I would suggest > contacting a man named Murray Steinberg (I believe that he lives in > Richmond) but is VERY involved in the "movement" and he may be able > to help with a meeting place. His contact information is: Murray > Steinberg <familyrc@attbi.com>. The other person I would suggest is > a man named Robert Sidenberg, I think he lives in Arlington and his > contact information is Seidenbe@usa.redcross.org. Hopefully that > will help in your efforts. > I will certainly try to make it there (unfortunately the City of NY > took my car away), big surprise, but I have gotten involved with > several men here in the same boat who want so much to see change. > If I can work it out, I'd love to be there and participate. The > biggest problem I've always seen is a splintering of the many > different groups. I used to be very involved in Fathers for > Virginia (I don't even know if they exist anymore, Robert might > still be trying to keep some semblence of them in existence), but we > had a "supposedly" big rally in front of the Supreme court (this is > probably back in '96 and I think a whole 10 people actually showed > up. > You have groups like NOW who have so much cohesiveness and political > influence, and then you have many different Men's groups and they > just can't seem to get together to form a solid voice and really be > heard. Hopefully someday that will change because God knows the > system is couldn't be more screwed up and biased on the side of > women. I personally am about $50,000 in Child Support Arrears and > despite that I'm unemployed and on Welfare, the hearing examiner we > keep having to see is trying everything she can to not change the > amount I'm supposed to pay, despite the fact that it has ALWAYS been > more than I could possibly pay and still support myself in a very > meager existence. She on the other hand lives in a $3,000 a month > apartment on the Upper East Side and her monthly nut is over $7,000. > I however, live in a rent stabilized apt paying less than $600 a > month and manage to live on less than $1,000 a month. I'm sure you > know the story all too well... > I also have a valid court order for visitation but she hasn't let me > see them for well over a year! And, to add salt to the "wound" she > filed a restraining order back in November to completely keep me > away (of course every single word in it is a complete and bald faced > lie, but I'm sure you know that all she has to do is go down to the > court, put on her innocent face, state all her "complaints" and they > sign and stamp it and even serve it for her (they certainly never > did that for me...) Enough of me rambling.. > Anyway, I wanted to give you those contacts in hopes that it would > help. Much Regards and I hope you had a great Holiday weekend, if I > remember correctly you actually do get to see your angels (I may not > respond, but I do keep track of your e-mails), so I hope you got to > spend it with them. --- Vicki <Thegrimreaper7772000@yahoo.com> "Being threatened" > I need help i have been fighting the cys here in pa for over two > years now to get my son home and he has been abused by the cys > foster home as well as being put on drugs. > I have a TPR hearing coming up the 8th of May and was told to get as > much support as i could can you help need to contact some one that > is willing stand by me to get son home maybe even get a rally going > in front of the court house please contact me i live in Washington > pa ================================================================== To unsubscribe from this list at anytime, send email to Majordomo@kids-right.org with the following 1 line in the BODY of the message (Subject is ignored). unsubscribe members
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