Members interested in being a Guest Editor & Your FEEDBACK

murtarij@yahoo.com

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Good People & People of Faith,

1. Getting caught up and organization - unanswered email?
2. Guest Editor for our Newsletter - you?
3. Your FEEDBACK - on reform, 48 arrests & 207 jail days.

PLEASE reply to address:  jmurtari@AKidsRight.Org

1. Getting caught up and organization - unanswered email?
--------------------------------------------------------

It's been another long while since the last list message.  I've tried
to answer all personal emails and feel caught up.  If you sent me a
message and didn't get a reply -- please send it again!

There were many good thoughts (some pro and some con) and I've finally
collected them into a FEEDBACK message (below).  You may not have written
in, but I'm sure someone below probably expressed your feelings.

I have been contacted by some good people in the past with ideas about
a more formal organization and incorporation.  It certainly needs to 
happen and I welcome folks who would like to get involved in that effort
and who share similar goals.  Do you LIKE the ideas at:

* http://www.ThePetitionSite.com/3/the-declaration-of-family-rights/ -- 400 
signatures!

* http://www.NationalPLC.org/ -- a reform network.

* http://www.AKidsRight.Org/  -- family rights and NonViolent action.

Contact me! jmurtari@AKidsRight.Org

2. Guest Editor for our Newsletter - you?
-----------------------------------------

Right now I am very busy just trying to make ends "meet" -- or at
least slow them getting farther apart!  I've sent out requests before
...  if you would like to be a "Guest Editor" for the group
Newsletter, please contact me.  For an archive of messages so you can
see the basic format see: http://www.AKidsRight.org/archive/

The Newsletter has one or more of the following sections:

* Editorial on legislative, court, and public actions to bring about
reform in accordance with the goals of our Group (see sites above).

* News and Events in general on reform that are submitted by others.
Retransmits from other mailing lists.

* Your FEEDBACK -- as Guest editor, you will take care of answering
the replies from people on the list.  Dialog with them, and the
prepare a message to share with everyone.  If the list member sends
in a reply, they always get the last word in the FEEDBACK (see
format below).

Interested? Contact me! jmurtari@AKidsRight.Org 

3. Your FEEDBACK - on reform and 48 arrests & 207 jail days.
---------------------------------------------------------

Last list msg:   http://www.AKidsRight.Org/arrests_jail.htm

This FEEDBACK actually covers several months and not just the
last list message.

--- Thea Artis <f4vahr@yahoo.com>   http://www.va-ep.org/

> Thirty years ago--when the laws we hate were proposed, men like us
> sat around and said “that doesn't affect me”, and “I've got time
> constraints” and “I don't want to get involved.” Look at where we
> are now.

> What will our grandsons say about us thirty years from now?

--- Aarde V. Atheian <Athein@ca.rr.com>

> I don't think your preoccupation with what our protesters are saying
> as to what they are protesting for, is well placed. I think that
> it's a bit too cranky to preoccupy yourself with what they are
> saying and how close these are to what you've been saying. You are
> making too much out of it. I would say stop doing it. Stop those
> criticisms and concentrate instead on trying to get people to
> protest. That's the most important aspect.

> I started protesting in 1997 the year we filed for divorce and I
> haven't stopped since. Even if there's one or ten of us, I am
> protesting always with a bullhorn, a placard and a voice as loud as
> I can make it. I am there at the earliest and still shouting my at
> my hoarsest until the very last one is gone.

> At the age of seventy and with frailest of healths, there wasn't a
> protest in the larger Los Angeles area that I haven't partaken in.

> No movement will ever take hold without its adherents showing
> willingness to protest for it. My lament is that people willing to
> protest, are so few and far between that you can count them on your
> fingers. There are a hundred thousand divorce casualties a year and
> yet not one of them will take it to the streets with us.

> Whatever has been achieved during those two decades has been nothing
> but paltry bones thrown at us by those who are in control of our
> political destiny.  The Democrats are the worst. The Republicans are
> the second worst.

> Nothing has changed. Things in fact, have grown worse.  Our
> opponents have made sure that people like us will now be fleeced and
> looted to the hilt, even more thoroughly than ever before.

> Unless we are willing to give of ourselves in protests such, that
> they become part of the Newsweek every week if not every day,
> nothing will change and we will all be slaughtered one by one to
> feed the gory appetites of our predators who do not want to wean
> themselves from living off our life's earnings or efforts that
> should have been going to our children.

I do admire all you have done.  Taking any kind of action is better
than just sitting at home and doing nothing -- and as you have found,
it makes you feel better when you actually do something.

I guess we must agree to disagree on how important clear goals are
before we "protest", and do you we need to "yell" or show more "loving
sacrifice".  I will have to admit, my attempts have not been very
successful either in getting anything changed.

--- Dean Schrickel <englewood1@hotmail.com>

> King's efforts were pointless! Johnson passed the Voters rights act
> of 65 and the civil rights act of 64 to win the black vote! When are
> you going to figure it out it is all about POWER. Eliminate the
> Federal funding to the counties and this child support nightmare
> would disappear! The same with the VAWA! It sends funds to the
> Congressman's districts! Protection orders only stop law abiding
> men, not criminals and abusers.  Protection orders give a false
> sense of security while destroying the target and eliminating his
> Constitutional rights! Follow the money, that will end this!

I don't agree with your take on King and what he demonstrated and
accomplished.  What he did started in '55 -- and before you get laws
to change and a Civil Rights Act passed -- he needed to change how
people think, how the nation perceived Blacks -- he did that.

Not sure what your goals are, but for any of it to happen, we need to
change how people think about parents and family rights.  The "money
trail" is usually a good choice, but not when it comes to fundamental
rights.

I may be mistaken, and you may be correct on what is needed.  When you
have time give me a description of how you see the change you seek
happening.  What your role will be in that?

> Dean's reply

> People know that 10's of Billions of Dollars are flowing to the
> counties that are already paid a 2% fee to collect this money! The
> Taxpayers are being ripped off and they don't even know it! Ripping
> off the taxpayers for " The best interests of the child". Johnson
> passed these laws for political Power only. He didn't give a rat
> ass about blacks only their votes!

--- Frank Votra <sashtool@yahoo.com>

> John, it is always of great interest for me to read your optimistic
> view point on any given subject and this one, jail time, is a good
> case in point. I have been jailed 4 times now and indeed I have even
> been taken from my place of work in handcuffs and all I can say is
> that it wasn't worth it. Why you might ask? First accept for one
> time when I defied a court order were the arrests actually
> legal. And that was to make a point that I was being robbed by the
> mother of my son. No good.  

> It has been my experience that judges just don't give a damn about
> the well being of men in their courts. They would just as soon lock
> you up to assuaged a nagging female and make it look like justice
> was served and be a deterrent for the next guy plus, I believe they
> get additional federal funding to combat "domestic violence" with
> each arrest so it is to their benefit to throw you in jail to score
> financial points and give the little lady her vindictive
> reward. What I have learned is that judges will not follow the law,
> they don't have to in family court, and they will deny you of your
> constitutional rights in a heart beat. Men are just a commodity that
> must pay and stay away and that is all you are seen as by the
> courts.  

> Plus, women can make any type of allegation with out proof and it is
> taken as Gospel without question or need of facts. Now here is a
> great point John. I was recently charged with "rape" in court by the
> mother of my son. She claimed in open court that it occurred 5 years
> before the birth of my son. The court believed it. I am not saying
> this in bitterness John but to point out the absolute stupidity that
> men have to deal with in court at the hands of liberal judges. As a
> result of that charge I have had to retain an attorney which by
> doing so she has won as it made me expend money that I wish I didn't
> have to spend so in a sense she has won the first round and she will
> win on the charge as how do you confront it? Her word is always
> better than his word.

Good to hear from you.  I think you have written in before?  I agree
with what you say, when "they" come and get "us" and arrest "us" --
there is not much to say against the injustice.

But when "we" confront "them" peacefully and accept their arresting
"us" as a demonstration of how much things need to change, and how
much we love our kids -- it carries a different meaning.

> Frank's reply

> Yes, I have written you several times in the past to complain about
> the one sided sexist court system. However, I was never
> confrontational in any of the arrests as it only makes a bad
> situation much, much worse.

--- <robert.whiston@talktalk.net>

> What about 'A riot is at bottom the language of the unheard'. 

Yes, there are many quotes -- but I guess the big questions we each
need to ask ourselves is:

1) What is the reform you seek?
2) How do you see it realistically happening?
3) What are you willing to do to make it happen?

Tough questions for anyone, myself included.  And they way "most"
parents answer them -- is why we are not making any real progress
right now -- but things can change.

--- Fran Griner <gfgriner9@yahoo.com>

> I am just curious about your driver's license situation.  Do you
> drive without a license, or just get somebody else to drive you or
> what?. It really is a crime for these people to take NCPs only means
> to have visitation with their kids, and only means to earn a living
> and support themselves and their kids.

> Another thing.  Have you ever figured out how much money they have
> wasted on arresting you and keeping you in jail for those 207 days?
> Would they arrest you again, or are they tired of it by now?

Years ago I would just drive because I'm careful, but a few years back
I had several arrests because the police have these automatic license
plates readers and get a report the owners license is suspended.

Hard to believe, I haven't driven since 2009.  I'm luck to have a
grocery store within walking distance and when Domenic is here -- he
drives.  But in June I will quality for a restricted/work license (I
don't know because of the other violations).  Just a mess!

I'm sure they have spent a fortune on me, and as you can tell by the
spread sheet, because I keep coming right back they usually go out of
there way to avoid an arrest.

The big thing missing is just having more people.  Getting a few Moms
and Dad peacefully arrested at the same time would be big news and I
think it would "put us on the map."

--- "Ray Brew" <brevv592ter@yahoo.com>

> What has the system done to make sure I did not lose my child? 
> NOTHING!!!! I was simply locked out of Family Law by a bunch of
> criminals and I medically had no ability to get someone to help me,
> not allowed to have an attorney or to stop a liar spouse that
> alienated my child to enslave her to hurt me.

Yes, you are quite right about what the "system" did for you --
nothing. Actually, it did more than nothing, but actually helped turn
your own child against you.  Especially during Christmas I feel so bad
when I hear a story like yours -- what a torture a normally happy
season should be.  I had a LOT of troubles with the system, but my son
and I were fortunate to keep close (and so much of that depends on the
personality of the child and a little luck!).

The big question is, what are we doing to do about it?  What is the
goal?  How do we get there?  When you have time, take a look at the
web site, http://www.AKidsRight.Org/approach.htm -- and let me know
what you think.

> Ray's reply

> What have I done about the corruption of Family Law -

> I have written to every Tom, Dick and Harry in government that
> includes presidents, governors, legislator, Att Generals,etc. etc. I
> have very specifically done this for me and also masses of others.

> I have paid out money to support groups (a waste of my money) I have
> personally with others visited with elected state assemblymen and
> senators.  I have given others that are totally ignorant, my
> experience advice and been insulted for it by some dumb ass leaders
> that are on ego trips.  

> I have suggested for many years (there is a group that I applaud -
> ACFC) that actions must be at FEDERAL levels (of course state is a
> bit easier but will correct nothing due to the very open corruption
> of states taking federal funds). This can be done by going to DC to
> visit with legislators and Senators but that can be done also at
> their STATE offices when they are there. Big time if people desire
> to protest in state to the states make it at capital building, in
> from of judges homes on the weekend and even in front of crooked
> attorney homes on the weekends (upset the neighborhoods big time and
> make them uncomfortable living in that neighborhood. Remember they
> are scum of this earth and deserve nothing nice from innocent and
> good parents. Actually they deserve to fear for there lives (this is
> crooked attorneys & judges) without the parents ever threatening
> them. John I think some of your methodson bad senators, judges
> etc. are very good but I do not think getting arrest is any kind of
> answer or will get anything changed.

> I have studied major issues such as PAS, prepared a major
> presentation on the subject but then I was pushed aside by parental
> support groups that should truly hear the subject to be aware of the
> destruction that they (mostly mothers) do to their custodial
> children.  I have attended a DC summer rally on Family Law issues
> that defined fully that nothing was happening to get things
> changed. It is still today the same situation.

> I have attended NJ state capital rallies (multiple times) in front
> of state legislature building with signs, handouts, bull horns,
> picketing.

> I have picketed in front of local courthouse that is the leader of
> crimes for my problems and the many others that picketed in front of
> this building.

> I have tried for 14 years to get an honest, competent attorney to
> fully help me but they refused to fully help me, were fully denied
> by the courts or the state of NJ or they have in full contempt of my
> Constitutional rights not helped me.

> I have tried for 14 years to get help to protect my child that was
> turned over to a very vicious liar and controller former spouse but
> the judge who is legal bed with the formers attorney prevented all
> protection for my child to be non-existent. I beg today for help
> (legal) for my child and help for me who they are attempting to
> murder. I doubt I will get any help other than me taking the law
> into my own hands. I have very few alternatives or answers.

> Do you think I have done enough????? for me and at the same time
> others? For that I have never once gotten an ounce of help from any
> one group out there.

> One of the major problems in this nation is that Americans do
> nothing to change anything. What that promotes is that government
> does NOT fear the public. Remember they get voted in and are too
> much paid by us. The bottom line the government must FEAR THE
> AMERICAN PUBLIC or these Family Law problems will never get changed
> because this was all created by the government that has no fear of
> the Americans that fully fear the government.

 -- 

                                       John Murtari
____________________________________________________________________
Coordinator                                                                     
                                                  AKidsRight.Org
jmurtari@AKidsRight.Org                                                       A 
Kid's Right to BOTH parents"
(315) 944-0999(x-211)                                                                     
http://www.AKidsRight.Org/

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